KATHERYN BAKER

 

    "BOB DYLAN DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH SONGS FOR AN ALBUM"......KATHERYN BAKER

     Associated Press Reporter


    1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

    2 FOR THE CENTRAL DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY

    3

    4 JAMES DAMIANO, )

    5 PLAINTIFF, ) CASE NO.

    6 VS. ) 95CV4795(JBS)

    7 SONY MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT, INC., )

    8 AND BOB DYLAN, )

    9 DEFENDANTS. )

    10 -----------------------------------

    11

    12

    13 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF:

    14 KATHRYN BAKER

    15 MONDAY, APRIL 1, 1996

    16 10:17 A.M.

    17

    18

    19

    20

    21

    22

    23 FILE NO. LL62034

    24 REPORTED BY DAWSHA LAYLAND BAKER

    25 C.S.R. NO. 5166

    1

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF KATHRYN BAKER, THE

    2 WITNESS, TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF, AT

    3 10:17 A.M., MONDAY, APRIL 1, 1996, AT 9606 SANTA

    4 MONICA BOULEVARD, BEVERLY HILLS, CALIFORNIA, BEFORE

    5 DAWSHA LAYLAND BAKER, C.S.R. NO. 5166, PURSUANT TO

    6 SUBPOENA.

    7

    8 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL

    9 FOR PLAINTIFF:

    10 LAW OFFICES OF STEVEN M. KRAMER &

    11 ASSOCIATES

    12 BY: STEVEN M. KRAMER, ESQ.

    13 150 WEST 56TH STREET

    14 65TH FLOOR

    15 NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10019

    16

    17 FOR DEFENDANTS:

    18 PARCHER & HAYES

    19 BY: STEVEN M. HAYES, ESQ.

    20 500 FIFTH AVENUE

    21 38TH FLOOR

    22 NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10110

    23

    24 ALSO PRESENT: GEOFF MINGER, VIDEOGRAPHER

    25 CHRISTIAN MARTINEZ

    2

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 I N D E X

    2 WITNESS EXAMINATION PAGE

    3 KATHRYN BAKER BY MR. KRAMER 5, 37

    4 BY MR. HAYES 19, 46

    5

    6 OBJECTIONS BY COUNSEL

    7 PAGE LINE PAGE LINE PAGE LINE

    8 25 17 29 21 37 17

    9 42 6 43 14 43 21

    10

    11

    12

    13 E X H I B I T S

    14 NO. PAGE DESCRIPTION

    15 1 8 NEWSPAPER ARTICLE ENTITLED

    16 "DYLAN SURVIVES CHANGIN' TIMES"

    17 2 10 NEWSPAPER ARTICLE ENTITLED

    18 "DYLAN: A REBEL MELLOWS"

    19

    20

    21

    22

    23

    24

    25

    3

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 BEVERLY HILLS, CALIFORNIA;

    2 MONDAY, APRIL 1, 1996, 10:17 A.M.

    3

    4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the

    5 videotaped deposition of Kathryn Baker, in the

    6 matter of Damiano versus Sony Music Entertainment,

    7 Incorporated, and Bob Dylan. Today's date is

    8 April 1st, 1996. The time is 10:17 a.m. This

    9 recording is taking place at 9606 Santa Monica

    10 Boulevard, in Beverly Hills, California.

    11 My name is Geoff Minger, a notary

    12 public in the state of California. I represent

    13 Kerns & Gradillas Video Services, located at

    14 9320 Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills,

    15 California.

    16 This deposition is being videotaped on

    17 behalf of the plaintiff. I am neither counsel for,

    18 employed by or related to any party in this action,

    19 nor am I interested in the outcome thereof.

    20 Counsel, please introduce yourselves

    21 and state your appearance.

    22 MR. KRAMER: Steven Kramer, on behalf

    23 of the plaintiff.

    24 MR. HAYES: Steven Hayes, the firm of

    25 Parcher & Hayes, for the defendants.

    4

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the

    2 record. Would the court reporter please swear in

    3 the witness.

    4

    5 KATHRYN BAKER,

    6 having been first duly sworn, was

    7 examined and testified as follows:

    8

    9 EXAMINATION

    10 BY MR. KRAMER:

    11 Q. Miss Baker, good morning.

    12 A. Good morning.

    13 Q. This deposition is being taken

    14 pursuant to notice and subpoena. Did you receive a

    15 subpoena to appear here?

    16 A. Yes, I did.

    17 Q. And what is your profession, ma'am?

    18 A. I'm a writer.

    19 Q. And by whom are you employed

    20 currently?

    21 A. Currently Spelling Entertainment.

    22 Q. In what capacity?

    23 A. I'm executive story editor on the show

    24 "Melrose Place."

    25 Q. Was there a time that you were

    5

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 employed or in some way affiliated with the

    2 Associated Press?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. And when was that, ma'am?

    5 A. From 1981 until 1989.

    6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is

    7 10:19 a.m. We're off the record.

    8 (Discussion held off the record.)

    9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is

    10 10:19 a.m. We're back on the record.

    11 BY MR. KRAMER:

    12 Q. Miss Baker, during the time 1981 to

    13 1989 that you were affiliated with the Associated

    14 Press, what was your position or profession?

    15 A. Variously I was the staff

    16 writer/editor the last three years. I believe from

    17 1986 to 1989 I was the television critic, but I also

    18 wrote other entertainment features.

    19 Q. What is the Associated Press?

    20 A. It's a cooperative of thousands of

    21 newspapers. It's a wire service.

    22 Q. Okay. And is it fair to say that it's

    23 stationed or represented all over the country?

    24 A. Yes.

    25 Q. Okay. And where were you represented?

    6

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 A. At the time in question, the last

    2 three years I was with them, I was in New York.

    3 Q. Okay. And in your capacity as a

    4 writer for the Associated Press, did you, from time

    5 to time, conduct interviews of various personalities

    6 and stars and celebrities and such?

    7 A. Yes.

    8 Q. Okay. Could you give us an idea of

    9 just a few examples?

    10 A. Well, as television critic, I

    11 interviewed people like David Letterman and various

    12 television stars. Probably Dylan, who I interviewed

    13 in 1988 -- was probably -- if anybody asked me who

    14 was the biggest star I interviewed, it was probably

    15 him.

    16 Q. And as you know, you're here today

    17 concerning an interview that you conducted with

    18 Mr. Dylan. You understand that?

    19 A. Right.

    20 Q. When was that interview conducted,

    21 ma'am?

    22 A. August 5th, 1988.

    23 Q. Okay. And in preparation for today's

    24 appearance here, did you review any notes?

    25 A. Yes, I reviewed the transcript of the

    7

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 tape.

    2 Q. Okay. And does a tape recording

    3 exist?

    4 A. Yes.

    5 MR. KRAMER: And let me show you a

    6 copy -- or a portion of a copy of the article. This

    7 is the only copy that we have, and I'll ask the

    8 court reporter to first mark it as Exhibit 1 to this

    9 deposition and please attach it to the transcript.

    10 (The document referred to was

    11 marked by the C.S.R. as Plaintiff's

    12 Exhibit 1 for identification and

    13 attached to and made a part of this

    14 deposition.)

    15 BY MR. KRAMER:

    16 Q. Would you be kind enough to look at

    17 that document and if you can identify it, please do

    18 so, Miss Baker.

    19 A. Yeah. This is the story that I wrote

    20 that ran on the wire based on that interview.

    21 Q. What is the title of this article,

    22 ma'am?

    23 A. This particular newspaper, it says

    24 "Dylan Survives Changin' Times." The newspapers

    25 put their own headline on the story. I'm not sure

    8

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 what the headline we put on it was.

    2 Q. It says "By Kathryn Baker, Associated

    3 Press Writer, Beverly Hills, California."

    4 Are you that Kathryn Baker?

    5 A. Yes.

    6 MR. HAYES: The copy I have just has

    7 two pages and seems to refer to there being another

    8 page.

    9 MR. KRAMER: Yes. Those are the only

    10 two pages that we have. I was going to ask

    11 Ms. Baker.

    12 Q. Do you have a complete copy of this at

    13 some location?

    14 A. Yes.

    15 Q. Okay. And would you be willing, at

    16 your convenience, to provide both myself and

    17 Mr. Hayes with a copy of that --

    18 A. Okay. Sure.

    19 Q. -- so that we could have a complete

    20 copy?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 MR. HAYES: I have a copy here today

    23 which I'll be happy to have you mark, instead. The

    24 only problem I have, the first part of it is a

    25 little less clear.

    9

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 MR. KRAMER: Why don't we mark this as

    2 Exhibit 2.

    3 MR. HAYES: That's fine. That will

    4 provide the third page.

    5 MR. KRAMER: Great.

    6 (The document referred to was

    7 marked by the C.S.R. as Plaintiff's

    8 Exhibit 2 for identification and

    9 attached to and made a part of this

    10 deposition.)

    11 BY MR. KRAMER:

    12 Q. Would you be kind enough to look at

    13 what is now Exhibit 2, Miss Baker, and tell me if

    14 that appears to be the complete article, complete

    15 interview that appeared.

    16 A. Yes, it does.

    17 Q. Did you tape-record this interview?

    18 A. Yes.

    19 Q. And in preparation today, did you

    20 compare what appears in the article with the actual

    21 tape or the transcript of the tape?

    22 A. With the transcript of the tape.

    23 Q. Okay.

    24 A. Which I previously had compared with

    25 the tape, so the transcript is accurate.

    10

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 Q. Okay. And where did this interview

    2 take place between yourself and Mr. Dylan?

    3 A. It was over dinner at a restaurant

    4 called Il Cielo here in Beverly Hills.

    5 Q. Do you recall when it took place?

    6 A. August 5th, 1988 in the evening,

    7 sometime around 7:00 or 8:00 o'clock, something like

    8 that.

    9 Q. Was anyone else present at the table

    10 with you?

    11 A. Yes, Elliot Mintz, who was at the time

    12 Bob Dylan's publicist.

    13 Q. Does his voice, from time to time,

    14 appear on the tape?

    15 A. A couple of times.

    16 Q. Would you describe for the jury your

    17 process, then, if you had one, of how you would go

    18 about conducting an interview in connection with

    19 having the tape recording?

    20 In other words, what is the purpose of

    21 having a tape recorder there during the interview?

    22 A. Well, I particularly like to rely on a

    23 tape recorder rather than taking notes because it's

    24 easier to conduct a more casual conversation with

    25 someone.

    11

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 In this particular instance, I had the

    2 tape recorder on the table and even had a little

    3 mike, so he was very aware that he was being

    4 tape-recorded. That way you don't have to take any

    5 notes.

    6 We were having dinner, so it made it a

    7 little easier, and then the hard part is having to

    8 transcribe the entire tape which also included

    9 dinner.

    10 Q. And who actually physically

    11 transcribed that tape?

    12 A. Elliot Mintz provided a transcriber

    13 because it is a lot of work to do it and I needed to

    14 get the story out -- AP wanted me to get the story

    15 out relatively soon because it was an exclusive

    16 interview. So I let him do that.

    17 I took the transcript and went through

    18 it with the tape. I didn't have to do the actual

    19 typing -- in fact, when I went through the

    20 transcript, I noticed where I had made too little

    21 corrections to make sure that the quotes in the

    22 transcript exactly matched what was on the tape.

    23 Q. Okay. And are you comfortable today

    24 that the transcript, with your corrections, is an

    25 accurate transcription of the tape?

    12

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. Okay. Would you be kind enough to

    3 look at Exhibit 1. And I've turned it over to at

    4 least what appears to be the second page of the

    5 interview.

    6 A. Mm-hmm.

    7 Q. And the right-hand half of the page.

    8 A. Mm-hmm.

    9 Q. I'm going to read a couple of

    10 sentences. And after I read each one, my question

    11 will be the same, and that is: Did Mr. Dylan say

    12 that?

    13 A. Okay.

    14 Q. Do you understand?

    15 A. Yes.

    16 Q. Okay. If you would look, ma'am,

    17 towards the next to the last column of that page,

    18 what appears to be the third or fourth paragraph

    19 from the bottom, it says -- let's start at the top

    20 so we can put it in context.

    21 A. Okay.

    22 Q. I think it probably makes more sense.

    23 Actually, let's go to the bottom

    24 left-hand side of the page, "The album."

    25 Do you see where I have --

    13

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. "The album" --

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. Let's pick it up there. "The album"

    5 reads -- I'm reading from the interview that appears

    6 in the Associated Press August 1988, Exhibit 1,

    7 quote -- and these are your words, I take it, until

    8 we actually see quotes.

    9 "The album surprised some

    10 critics because it is mostly covers of

    11 other composers' songs."

    12 Could you explain to the jury what the

    13 word "covers" means in that context?

    14 A. That's when an artist records a song

    15 that was written by another songwriter.

    16 Q. So in this context, this refers to

    17 songs recorded by Mr. Dylan on his album, but that

    18 had been written by other composers?

    19 A. Actually, I -- this -- I --

    20 technically "covers" means redoing a song that's

    21 been recorded by someone else.

    22 Q. Okay.

    23 A. So I'm not sure that's entirely

    24 accurate. I'm sure all these songs were recorded

    25 sometime before.

    14

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 Q. Okay. But, in essence, these -- you

    2 were referring to songs recorded by him, but that

    3 had been composed by other people?

    4 A. Right.

    5 Q. You then continue, quote:

    6 "There are only two Dylan

    7 originals, plus two collaborations

    8 with Grateful Dead songwriter Robert

    9 Hunter, including the single," quote,

    10 "'Silvio,'" unquote.

    11 Would it be fair to state Grateful

    12 Dead is a very famous rock and roll band?

    13 A. Right.

    14 Q. Okay. Then you continue:

    15 "Dylan said he picked the

    16 other material because he liked it.

    17 Quote, "'Down in the Groove,'"

    18 unquote, "establishes Dylan as a

    19 recording artist and arranger with the

    20 strength of style to transcend the

    21 source of the material."

    22 You wrote those words?

    23 A. Yes.

    24 Q. And then you write what appears to be

    25 a quote from Mr. Dylan, and then I'll ask you if it

    15

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 is, in fact, such. Quote:

    2 "'There's no rule that claims

    3 that anyone must write their own

    4 songs,'" unquote, "he says."

    5 Miss Baker, did Mr. Dylan say those

    6 words?

    7 A. Yes.

    8 Q. And when you use the words "he says,"

    9 is that Mr. Dylan says?

    10 A. Yes.

    11 Q. You continue with, quote:

    12 "'And I do. I write a lot of

    13 songs. But so what, you know? You

    14 could take another song somebody else

    15 has written and you can make it

    16 yours. I'm not saying I made a

    17 definitive version of anything with

    18 this last record, but I liked the

    19 songs. Every so often you've gotta

    20 sing songs that're out there. You

    21 just have to, just to keep yourself

    22 straight.'"

    23 Did Mr. Dylan say those words?

    24 A. Yes.

    25 Q. You then continue without quotes:

    16

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 "The other reason for the

    2 others is inevitable: He didn't" --

    3 d-i-d-n-'t, as in did not -- "He

    4 didn't have enough material of his own

    5 for an album."

    6 Did Mr. Dylan say those words?

    7 A. I went back in the transcript and I

    8 was paraphrasing him and that's not entirely

    9 accurate. He said he didn't have enough songs that

    10 he wanted to put on an album.

    11 Q. You then continue, quote:

    12 "'Writing is like such an

    13 isolated thing. You're in such an

    14 isolated frame of mind.'"

    15 Did Mr. Dylan say that?

    16 A. Yes.

    17 Q. You continue, quote:

    18 "'You have to get into or be

    19 in that place.'"

    20 Did Mr. Dylan say that?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 Q. Quote:

    23 "'In the old days, I could

    24 get to it real quick.'"

    25 Did Mr. Dylan say that?

    17

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 A. Yes.

    2 Q. Quote:

    3 "'I can't'" -- c-a-n-'t, as

    4 in cannot -- "'I can't get to it like

    5 that no more. It's not that simple.'"

    6 Did Mr. Dylan say those words?

    7 A. Yes.

    8 Q. You continue, ma'am, quote:

    9 "'I mean, just being able to

    10 shut yourself off for long periods of

    11 time, where you're so isolated, no one

    12 can get to you, mentally or

    13 physically, you know.'"

    14 Did Mr. Dylan say those words?

    15 A. Yes.

    16 Q. You continue, quote:

    17 "'You need to be able to do

    18 that in order to come up with that

    19 kind of stuff.'"

    20 Did Mr. Dylan say that?

    21 A. Yes.

    22 Q. You continue, ma'am, quote:

    23 "'You're always capable of it

    24 in your youth, and especially if

    25 you're an unknown and nobody cares --

    18

    KERNS & GRADILLAS CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
    (310) 556-1136

    1 like if you're an anonymous person.'"

    2 Did he say those words?

    3 A. Yes.

    4 Q. "He" being Mr. Dylan?

    5 A. Right.

    6 Q. You continue, quote:

    7 "'But once that all ends,

    8 then you have to create not only what

    9 you want to do, but you have to create

    10 the environment to do it in, which is

    11 double hard.'"

    12 Did Mr. Dylan say those words?

    13 A. Yes.


http://www.jamesdamiano.yolasite.com




 

This free website was made using Yola.

No HTML skills required. Build your website in minutes.

Go to www.yola.com and sign up today!

Make a free website with Yola